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Is there anyone who has a internet link to any 2 stroke oil scientific analysis?

Everyone has there favorite oil, but I am sure there has to be some research somewhere done in a laboratory situation of the various oils. 

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Hi Jason,

              back in 2009, we had a Superkart race meeting at Morgan Park, Warwick, and we had 50% of competitors with blown up engines in their Superkarts. We thought something funny was going on.

       At the time, I had access to a NATA oil testing lab here is Brisbane. The results were surprising. Reports attached and words to support the report below. At the time we didn't have a sample of Maxima 927 which many people seem to use now.

       The Elf 976 and the Belray HR1 were very close and was told they are made from the same base ingredient. It is my belief that Elf and Belray at the time were the only 2 to have this technology. Others may have it by now. Most people in Superkart racing in Australia would use the Elf HTX909 or HTX976+. Hopefully this information hasn't confused you even more.

"Finally finished the Data on the 2 stroke oils we use.

The Viscosities of each are attached in the spreadsheet. To give you a rough idea of where yours lies in respect to normal engine oil a 15w/40 oil has a viscosity of around 108 Cst where as a 50 grade oil is = to 220 Cst's. A 10w /30 would = around 70Cst or roughly the same a 68 Grade compressor oil. It appears the two brands using powervalve additive have viscosities around 140 Cst or the same as a 40 Grade oil. Was interesting to a competitor and hearing the success he has in bottom end life using a 220 cst based two stroke with Rotax Max engines.
The other file is an FTiR (infra red graph) chart of which i could only take a snapshot to get into an ok format to send.
When viewed in colour the colour codes are:
Yellow/Green   Redline
Purple             Pennzoil
Blue                Motul 710
Red                Motul 800
Aqua Green    Motorex 2T
Pink               Mobil 2T
Green             Elf HTX
Orange           Bel Ray H1R
Electric Blue   Valvoline 2T
 
 
The Redline oil showed the biggest concern as the trace shows quite a high water content in the oil. This is more likely due to storage or transfer from container to container etc.
All the other oils show the difference in wavelength and hence the variation in structure. Synthetics are obviously different to mineral oils. More information can be determined from this graph but will leave till another time.
 
We have discussed at meetings the viscosities and major differences seen in the blends. Is worth looking where your oil falls compared to the two known Moto GP oil types.
Remember as a highly developed 2 stroke class we run at high revs for sustained periods which is very different to Moto X and other forms of two stroke racing although we do share similarities with snow mobile circuit racing. A very important feature of your oil should be the ability to produce almost no soot residue when burnt. ie if you used a 2 stroke basic std oil i doubt you would get very far as the residue would build up very quickly and hence deposit in the bore/rings then at high sustained revs it will grab on the wall causing marks,grooves etc and there goes a piston. Read your data sheets supplied when you buy the oil you use and make sure this a feature of the oil you use as racing is a lot more fun and rewarding when we all finish. 
Hope this info helps.
 
Attachments:
Ashley

Were you able to correlate the analysis you did with the blow ups at the super kart meeting? Were the low viscosity oils the ones blowing up?

Was it a really cold day at the super kart meeting?  Definitely interested to learn more, thanks for sharing!!

Hi Chris

            everybody using an oil 140 and above were safe. Superkarts are often on the throttle much longer than sprint racing so we need more oil for more engine protection and heat dissipation.

            Something to think about, by adding a few more mils of oil per litre to your mix will only increase engine service life without any detriment to engine performance. I say to everyone that asks to add 3 - 5 mils (depending on what oil is used) extra oil per litre.

            For those of us that have been around for yonks, we will remember Castrol A747. Did a good job lubricating when it stayed mixed in the fuel. Trouble is is starts to separate from the fuel after 5 or so minutes. The oil went to the bottom of the tank. So when you start your race it gets a lot of oil but after a few laps you were running on fuel only and you know what happens from there. 

            Have a think about it. By putting some thought into your oil, you can increase the service life of your engine between rebuilds which means less DNFs and more money in your pocket. Buy an oil for the qualities, not because someone wants to get rid of it off the shelf. But if you are happy with what you are using, stick with it.

            This is my own experience with Superkart racing only.

Hi Deon,

             nothing unusual in the weather condition. Was a dry warm Autumn day like you get in Warwick QLD. I have seen many days like this before where there are many blow ups but you can see obvious reasons behind most of them.

            What was interesting about this day is that due to money being tight as it is now for many people, they tried a cheaper oil from their local auto parts retailer. In turn, all they got was more expense because they needed their engine rebuilt or they left the sport because they couldn't afford it anymore which neither is good.

             

             

Thanks for your reply Deon

I can't really decipher what the infra red table is showing, but the viscosity information is really interesting.

I am currently using Castrol Power1 TTS, mostly because it is synthetic and available at most automotive shops, I have not had any issues with it. But looking at the MSDS sheets to find a viscosity number, it is quite low - Under 50 cst. I have also looked at several other brands that I have seen used at the track and their viscosity is also under the 100 cst mark.

I would very much like to know how important viscosity is compared to other factors.  

Hi Jason,

              I don't understand the infrared table either but I think it has something to do with what the oil is made of and what contaminates are in the sample.

              Rule of thumb we have found. If it runs out of the bottle like water, its too thin. The oil needs enough "guts" so it doesn't flash off on ignition so it can lubricate the bore / piston. This is why oils with a heavier base stock lubricate better as a rule. If it flashes off, the lubricant becomes a carbon deposit and not a lubricant. Not what you are looking for.

              I can tell you that the most common 2 stroke oil in Superkarts in Queensland will be the Elf HTX909 and HTX976+ and Maxima 927. We still have 4 guys using Belray HR1, same as GK2, as they have used it for many years without problem.

               The Valvoline oil we tested ran out of the bottle like honey at room temperature in winter. At the time, I don't think it was freely available but maybe different now.

              Another interesting test done in the UK with a 250 National superkart engine (250cc, mono cylinder, 5 or 6 speed gearbox, reed valve, 111500rpm) that makes about 70HP at the treads. They tested a group of 2 stroke oils on the dyno. With multiple fuel tanks fitted with taps to turn on and off the fuel supply, they tested which oil made the most horsepower. Test oils were Castrol K997, Castrol XR77, Castrol A747, Elf HTX976+,Silkolene Pro2, with 1 product from Rock Oil and 1 product from Shell. The French product made the most HP overall. Made 1.5hp than the K997 they were using before which is a good product. 

               I am not going to tell you what your motor should or shouldn't have but the manufacturer or your engine builder will have a good idea I would think. I am not suggesting you go through all this testing like we have but buy a good racing 2 stroke oil, maybe add a few more drops of it per litre and your engine will thank you. If you are happy with what you are using, stick with it.

That's a lot of revs !!!

Ring Seal is good - less friction in the bore is good as it reduces wear and failures and heat build up especially in long sessions and may increase service intervals - carbon build up is bad

One warmup lap into one qualifying lap (at minimum weight) then save the tyres and the engine or a 24 hour enduro ?

In about 1990 I had two samples of buoyancy foam (for a boat - petroleum byproduct?) tested by the University of Tasmania with their "Mass Spectrometer" - slight differences but effectively the same and neither included polystyrene which dissolves in petrol and the reason for the test

As mentioned beware of condensation in fuel and oil containers - boats and trucks have water seperators in the fuel lines mainly for this reason - also the reason why you should not use a previously opened brake fluid container - have a think about that - squeezing then filling 5 litres containers to the max might be better than partly filling an old, used 20 litre container and then mix as required during the day - also any unmixed fuel can go in the tow vehicle - I know some race mixes smell good in some cars but I advise against it - I'm told one car manufacturer refused a warranty claim for gummed up rings ! - and try to use a newish high volume "service" station - for important meetings (if allowed) teams/groups might consider Elf fuel from a sealed container just before the first session each day and you might also consider Elf oil from a sealed container each day - BUT test first in similar conditions (Engine Temperature, Temperature, Barometric Pressure/Altitude and Humidity - Airports usually have good data) - And I suggest keeping your fuel on ice - if you don't you get that whoosh from the over-infalted plastic fuel container - that is the most volatile component of the fuel evaporating off first - taken to the extreme you are left with an oily residue in the bottom of your petrol container - with your fuel container on ice and the tank insulated (especially if you are under weight) you might get that whoosh on the qualifying lap !

Also consider using bottled air for tyres (it needs to be dry to avoid corrosion inside the bottle and no need for a compressor) and purge as much of the original air as possible to remove water vapour - then test with starting pressures raised about 1psi - we only karted for fun but when nitrogen was allowed we ran about 1 psi more than normal - then check the lap times on the first and second lap (remember one warm up and one hot lap for qualifying! or making ground or making up places early) and throughout the session and the then check the pressures as soon as you come off the track - expect them to be about normal - consider higher pressures for qualifying then two laps - any more might stuff the tyres - I remember watching a combined field of Jmax on Mojos and Junior Clubman on MG Reds - the Junior Clubman seemed to keep up on the first lap then were close on the second lap then the JMax had an obvious advantage -  Mojos might need more laps for qualifying? - different tyres are different! - tyre performance is especially important at the start of a race - maybe put the kart (but not the fuel) in the sun and rotate the tyres - if they are not properly balanced use a rock on the rim to hold the light side down - this also checks how far out of balance you are - or just balance the rims with lead cut with side cutters if necessary - best done by an adult with gloves then wash hands

And water vapour can kill big end bearings in a KT100S left for a long time and expect the crank seals to be stuffed as well and allowing air to enter and lean out the motor - You can get a cap set for a Rotax -  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotax-Max-Engine-Cap-Set-Mini-Junior-Sen... - I have not seen them in Australia but seem a good idea

How hard could it be to be fast in one of these simple little "Go" karts ?

Why did you test Motul motorcycle oils instead of their Kart Grand Prix ??

Also, I take it you don't work at the oil testing lab ?? Some of your statements are flawed !!

Guys,

        I was just sharing some information we had found through testing ourselves. Its up to you what products you use. Doesn't bother me 1 way or another.

The samples are what people were using on the day at the track. What we have found in our own Superkart racing years may not translate to what you do.

Never ever put 2 stroke oil containing castor in a 4 stroke!

Ashley Zahl said:

Hi Jason,

              I don't understand the infrared table either but I think it has something to do with what the oil is made of and what contaminates are in the sample.

              Rule of thumb we have found. If it runs out of the bottle like water, its too thin. The oil needs enough "guts" so it doesn't flash off on ignition so it can lubricate the bore / piston. This is why oils with a heavier base stock lubricate better as a rule. If it flashes off, the lubricant becomes a carbon deposit and not a lubricant. Not what you are looking for.

              I can tell you that the most common 2 stroke oil in Superkarts in Queensland will be the Elf HTX909 and HTX976+ and Maxima 927. We still have 4 guys using Belray HR1, same as GK2, as they have used it for many years without problem.

               The Valvoline oil we tested ran out of the bottle like honey at room temperature in winter. At the time, I don't think it was freely available but maybe different now.

              Another interesting test done in the UK with a 250 National superkart engine (250cc, mono cylinder, 5 or 6 speed gearbox, reed valve, 111500rpm) that makes about 70HP at the treads. They tested a group of 2 stroke oils on the dyno. With multiple fuel tanks fitted with taps to turn on and off the fuel supply, they tested which oil made the most horsepower. Test oils were Castrol K997, Castrol XR77, Castrol A747, Elf HTX976+,Silkolene Pro2, with 1 product from Rock Oil and 1 product from Shell. The French product made the most HP overall. Made 1.5hp than the K997 they were using before which is a good product. 

               I am not going to tell you what your motor should or shouldn't have but the manufacturer or your engine builder will have a good idea I would think. I am not suggesting you go through all this testing like we have but buy a good racing 2 stroke oil, maybe add a few more drops of it per litre and your engine will thank you. If you are happy with what you are using, stick with it.

Why is that Colin ??

I sell lots of Shell M to speedway guys, and many rotary owners also add a bit to their fuel.  All of the 'historic' Jawa engined bikes run it in their engines as the engine lubricant !!

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