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Is there anyone who has a internet link to any 2 stroke oil scientific analysis?

Everyone has there favorite oil, but I am sure there has to be some research somewhere done in a laboratory situation of the various oils. 

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Hi Ian,

Ive seen a couple of purely road car engines with piston crowns caked with a "toffee" like castor coating.  Analysis confirmed it was castor!  Also caused compression and oil ring sticking.  All engines were low mileage and in otherwise perfect condition.  

If your tearing an engine down regularly and using it in competition, probably not an issue.  If your average road car engine needs castor........................!?!

Colin.


Ian Williams said:

Why is that Colin ??

I sell lots of Shell M to speedway guys, and many rotary owners also add a bit to their fuel.  All of the 'historic' Jawa engined bikes run it in their engines as the engine lubricant !!

The good old fashioned Castrol 747 is commonly used down in the VIC Superkart scene. 

I'm with Colin.

From time to time, when we couldn't use all of our unused kart fuel drained from the kart tank, for cleaning, or in the mower, I would slip a couple of litres of mixed fuel into the VB Commodore (red motor) holding about half a tank of fuel.

Bugger all castor oil really. But over 6 or 7 years, it added up.

Couldn't get any rings out without breaking them, the grooves were so gummed up.

Had to go with a rebore and new pistons on the rebuild.

Terry

Colin, I have a theory that fuel used might have a bit to do with pistons carboning up and rings sticking.  When we are racing away we always have to use control fuel from whatever servo, almost never our preferred fuel brand and our "away" engines get a lot more carbon in them than our club engine which is run using fuel from our preferred servo at home.

I've also noticed that engines run on ELF seem to stay super clean.

Do you have any theories on this?

Deon.



Colin Edwards said:

Hi Ian,

Ive seen a couple of purely road car engines with piston crowns caked with a "toffee" like castor coating.  Analysis confirmed it was castor!  Also caused compression and oil ring sticking.  All engines were low mileage and in otherwise perfect condition.  

If your tearing an engine down regularly and using it in competition, probably not an issue.  If your average road car engine needs castor........................!?!

Colin.


Ian Williams said:

Why is that Colin ??

I sell lots of Shell M to speedway guys, and many rotary owners also add a bit to their fuel.  All of the 'historic' Jawa engined bikes run it in their engines as the engine lubricant !!

Ashely, so those running these oils on the day mentioned didn't suffer engine failures?

Bel-Ray H1r

ELF HTX 976

Valvoline 2T

Any theory as to why?  Does the heavier oil provide better lubrication?

I would have thought a heavier oil would be more likely to fall out of suspension with the fuel but I'm no chemical engineer.  It is very interesting stuff.  Thanks again for sharing your test results.

Deon.



Ashley Zahl said:

Hi Deon,

             nothing unusual in the weather condition. Was a dry warm Autumn day like you get in Warwick QLD. I have seen many days like this before where there are many blow ups but you can see obvious reasons behind most of them.

            What was interesting about this day is that due to money being tight as it is now for many people, they tried a cheaper oil from their local auto parts retailer. In turn, all they got was more expense because they needed their engine rebuilt or they left the sport because they couldn't afford it anymore which neither is good.

             

             

Hi Deon,

We have never had issues with any of the castor / synthetics oils.  My comment was regarding feeding these oils to 4 stroke passenger car engines.

However, using a "control" fuel at an open event should also not be a drama.  Its possible that when running your non-preferred fuel at an away race, the problem you are seeing is caused by slightly lower than optimum engine usage.  On your home track you know well you are more likely to use all the performance available from an engine.  Whereas on an away track that you may not be 100% familiar with you may not be using the optimum engine tune / configuration.

Colin

Deon Attard said:

Colin, I have a theory that fuel used might have a bit to do with pistons carboning up and rings sticking.  When we are racing away we always have to use control fuel from whatever servo, almost never our preferred fuel brand and our "away" engines get a lot more carbon in them than our club engine which is run using fuel from our preferred servo at home.

I've also noticed that engines run on ELF seem to stay super clean.

Do you have any theories on this?

Deon.



Colin Edwards said:

Hi Ian,

Ive seen a couple of purely road car engines with piston crowns caked with a "toffee" like castor coating.  Analysis confirmed it was castor!  Also caused compression and oil ring sticking.  All engines were low mileage and in otherwise perfect condition.  

If your tearing an engine down regularly and using it in competition, probably not an issue.  If your average road car engine needs castor........................!?!

Colin.


Ian Williams said:

Why is that Colin ??

I sell lots of Shell M to speedway guys, and many rotary owners also add a bit to their fuel.  All of the 'historic' Jawa engined bikes run it in their engines as the engine lubricant !!

Hello Ashley, I was very interested to read about the dyno test they conducted, Can i find it anywhere or do you mind sharing the results? Thanks Andreas.



Ashley Zahl said:

Hi Jason,

              I don't understand the infrared table either but I think it has something to do with what the oil is made of and what contaminates are in the sample.

              Rule of thumb we have found. If it runs out of the bottle like water, its too thin. The oil needs enough "guts" so it doesn't flash off on ignition so it can lubricate the bore / piston. This is why oils with a heavier base stock lubricate better as a rule. If it flashes off, the lubricant becomes a carbon deposit and not a lubricant. Not what you are looking for.

              I can tell you that the most common 2 stroke oil in Superkarts in Queensland will be the Elf HTX909 and HTX976+ and Maxima 927. We still have 4 guys using Belray HR1, same as GK2, as they have used it for many years without problem.

               The Valvoline oil we tested ran out of the bottle like honey at room temperature in winter. At the time, I don't think it was freely available but maybe different now.

              Another interesting test done in the UK with a 250 National superkart engine (250cc, mono cylinder, 5 or 6 speed gearbox, reed valve, 111500rpm) that makes about 70HP at the treads. They tested a group of 2 stroke oils on the dyno. With multiple fuel tanks fitted with taps to turn on and off the fuel supply, they tested which oil made the most horsepower. Test oils were Castrol K997, Castrol XR77, Castrol A747, Elf HTX976+,Silkolene Pro2, with 1 product from Rock Oil and 1 product from Shell. The French product made the most HP overall. Made 1.5hp than the K997 they were using before which is a good product. 

               I am not going to tell you what your motor should or shouldn't have but the manufacturer or your engine builder will have a good idea I would think. I am not suggesting you go through all this testing like we have but buy a good racing 2 stroke oil, maybe add a few more drops of it per litre and your engine will thank you. If you are happy with what you are using, stick with it.

Hello Ashley, I was very interested to read about the dyno test they conducted, Can i find it anywhere or do you mind sharing the results? Thanks Andreas.



Ashley Zahl said:

Hi Jason,

              I don't understand the infrared table either but I think it has something to do with what the oil is made of and what contaminates are in the sample.

              Rule of thumb we have found. If it runs out of the bottle like water, its too thin. The oil needs enough "guts" so it doesn't flash off on ignition so it can lubricate the bore / piston. This is why oils with a heavier base stock lubricate better as a rule. If it flashes off, the lubricant becomes a carbon deposit and not a lubricant. Not what you are looking for.

              I can tell you that the most common 2 stroke oil in Superkarts in Queensland will be the Elf HTX909 and HTX976+ and Maxima 927. We still have 4 guys using Belray HR1, same as GK2, as they have used it for many years without problem.

               The Valvoline oil we tested ran out of the bottle like honey at room temperature in winter. At the time, I don't think it was freely available but maybe different now.

              Another interesting test done in the UK with a 250 National superkart engine (250cc, mono cylinder, 5 or 6 speed gearbox, reed valve, 111500rpm) that makes about 70HP at the treads. They tested a group of 2 stroke oils on the dyno. With multiple fuel tanks fitted with taps to turn on and off the fuel supply, they tested which oil made the most horsepower. Test oils were Castrol K997, Castrol XR77, Castrol A747, Elf HTX976+,Silkolene Pro2, with 1 product from Rock Oil and 1 product from Shell. The French product made the most HP overall. Made 1.5hp than the K997 they were using before which is a good product. 

               I am not going to tell you what your motor should or shouldn't have but the manufacturer or your engine builder will have a good idea I would think. I am not suggesting you go through all this testing like we have but buy a good racing 2 stroke oil, maybe add a few more drops of it per litre and your engine will thank you. If you are happy with what you are using, stick with it.

Sorry to say , but Ashley Zahl passed away last year.

O, very sorry to hear that.

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