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Is it due to the little traffic that now comes to this forum, that no one is talking about the AGM Report and Financials?

Interesting that no one here is analyzing either.

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What people can afford is of course extremely variable, "relative" if you will. Some can and do spend whatever they think it will take, and good luck to them, that's their business. Some, many, are forced to nickel and dime it, just to be there for the fun of it all. There is no magic number, but there are plenty of very talented drivers who will never go far in racing or have to indeed drop out due to lack of funds, a loss to karting. What's left are the more talented of the very well heeled (of which there are a fair few, though there are plenty of the well heeled with big budgets but no real talent...). Keep in mind that even very well heeled people rarely think of themselves as 'well off' (at least this is my experience with obviously 'loaded' people), everbody is on an average income, it would seem...

I would suggest that there are plenty of karters who'd love to spend a hundred $ to watch the footy, but don't because the cash is needed for racing (we 'povo racers', not that I personally give a toss for ball sports...).

Whether the KA board is at the root of a conspiracy to kill off the low budget racer, well I think it is fairly clear that the wind has been blowing in that direction (I'm sure plenty will agree). I have no issue with KA pushing 'professional' level racing (but lets face it, how many drivers in Australian karting are actually 'professional' in any real sense of that word not related to selling karts and parts), but I do object to the bar to entrance being raised so high that increasingly only those with fairly deep pockets need apply. 

I also find it objectionable when the 'professional' level of racing is apparently subsidised by the fees paid by average club level karters, rather than those funds being transparently directed toward the source of those funds, i.e. the clubs and their members, all of them. Surely the rich boys and girls can fully pay their own way? If it costs a great deal to stage 'top level' racing, then make admission to / participation in the top level reflect this, don't suck it from the ever diminishing bottom end... 

Considering that the sport does at least seem to have become structured in such a way that the top end is significantly propped up by the bottom end (i.e. as I see it, with funds siphoned off from the club level racers), what happens to the top end when the well runs dry? If we assume that this is just how it's going to be now, then not making entrance / participation financially easier (as opposed to creating a higher financial entrance / retention barrier), seems ultimately to be a self defeating strategy, i.e. just incompetant...

Regards,

John. 

Joe Torcasio said:

Cost is a factor for me but I dont know any better and have made the choice to be here with the budget I can afford. If it can get cheaper without compromising the quality of racing and speed then I am all for it.

Does anyone know what the magic number is though?

What can people afford?

I go to the footy and spend 100+ others go and spend 200+ some spend spend 30+ what is expensive. I think 200+ is expensive, the 30+ thinks I am expensive. Is it not all relative.

Are we really all part of a big change where the focus is to bring money into the sport and do away with low level budget karters.

I dont know and I will take one race year at a time. Who knows where I will be next year but I do like what karting offers and enjoying racing. Only wish club days were better fielded and I believe some of the solutions I have put forward may have merit. 

Thats all for me now, good luck to all those racing and for all those that dont or cant I hope you come back one day. 

Great comments im sure lots agree with all of the above and take notice of whats being said

Most people know all of what has been said and pointed out here, but the high flyers running the show obviously either don't get it, or worse still don't care. This has been shown clearly by their reaction to people pointing out the flaws in the direction taken and also their pig headedness in continuing on their own predetermined direction regardless of all the good, well meaning advise given to them time and time again from many different people with many decades of karting experience between them.

So as much as I would love to believe your statement, I feel that is nothing more than a fairy tail to think they would listen and change course now.
 
Tyson Arden said:

Great comments im sure lots agree with all of the above and take notice of whats being said

Well I for one would be totally against forcing people to race club  events before being eligible to race series or titles !

That is just a draconian  response to fix a problem that has been created by a desire to see the sport reach a level of professional status that certain people deem necessary.

Karting was once just a backyard  sport where people made their own chassis and ran lawn mower or chainsaw motors.

Not available to all but certainly reasonably affordable to anyone who was mechanically minded.

The sport grew exponentially with the introduction of the Yamaha motors - particularly the "S" motor.

Comparatively and relatively ,  I think it was no cheaper than the motors on offer today !!

The problem with them ( IMO) came about as the sport became more competitive  people demanded equality of performance and so the law makers tried various mods (blue printing etc ) which had only partial success. (the gun motors)

The best result again my opinion was the intro of a well built motor that the AKA had the guts to say "No mods of any kind"

Most people were content that the leopard motor was providing the required results. Unfortunately carby mods were allowed  and so the hunt for mods kept engine builders in business !!

So motors are not necessarily  the sole problem of today.

Back when I was in SA we ran a very successful 5 round series (Festival State Cup) that attracted large numbers for many years.

 So that is not necessarily the sole problem

The introduction of a bad tyre nearly destroyed the clubman classes.

It has huge drop off  and huge disparity between batches

So this can be a definite problem.  People had to buy new tyres ever meeting  to be competitive !!

Does this sound familiar ?

Qualifying every meeting is a huge cost for club meet consideration!

Draw / Reverse means you get to at least start against someone faster than you some of the time and you have the ability to learn and get better.

Now my pet hate !!!!

State and National series just effectively removes the club day racer who would like to "have a go " and see how they compare to the "best of the best"

The old CIK series was seen as the pinnacle of the sport - was very professional (and very expensive) and was the accepted stepping stone to other motor sport careers.

Forcing these types of requirement on every state at these levels has made the sport unaffordable to the average person and particularly families.

...................................................................................

So how to get the family back into the sport ?

No qualifying

Hard tyres

Restrictor introduction  for all  classes so there  are no weight divisions until numbers of participants require separation.

Piss off this stupid KA idea that karting is a professional sport !!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Tyson

they are great comments from people knowledgeable in the sport.

That's not what they want, those that offer an opinion, and point out the mistakes being made, are just being suspended from the sport.  It is some sort of power crazy jettison of those that actually have a love and passion for karting, as opposed to the those who will use the sport to make money from, and those that are celebrity struck.

En masse the entire board needs to be removed and replaced by those who know and understand karting.

If the clubs don't stand up for themselves and implement the removal of the board, then they can whinge and bitch all they like, nothing will improve, only get worse until it comes to a point where they are non existent with the distinct possibility of losing all of the clubs assets.

Is that what the karter want?

Tyson Arden said:

Great comments im sure lots agree with all of the above and take notice of whats being said

I suspect there are people taking notice of what is being said on public forums, and then placing names on a list...

Regards,

John.

Tyson Arden said:

Great comments im sure lots agree with all of the above and take notice of whats being said
Boy I hope so John. They can put my name on any list they like and take note of the following.

I took our kids to BMX come and try evening last night. all 3 kids loved it. Guess that might be on the cards now. Good 2nd hand bike $300-$400. Membership $40 each and $20 for a key to the track any time we like. They were sounding a little hesitant to say a new top of the line bike for pro riders might run into $2k-$3k and a good kids bike might run in at a little over $1500.
Wow, for the cost of one set of tyres and fuel for a single meeting in karting, I can set up one of my kids in BMX for 12 months.
So what it cost me in karting, for just 3 meetings in consumables alone, I can set up all 3 of my kids to have fun for the first 12 months. That puts costs into perspective for me.
Is it motor sport? No, but I bet they will have just as much fun and they can fang around the yard in the kart I have at home for free, any time they want.

John

Have you just come to that conclusion?

They have been at it for years, and troll any site they can think of attempting to unveil comments by anyone associated with Karting.

There also seems in place a monitor of comments made by certain people that shows up from various social media outlets.

So in someones opinion it is OK to stalk people via the internet, especially those who speak up, but not allow them to speak out?

They have been referred to as 'trolls' and 'keyboard cowards'.

This has also come out about certain individuals:

Good Evening,

Since we announced that the Karting Australia Board had made the decision that we would be purchasing a new national timing system and supplying it free of charge for the benefit of all of our affiliated Clubs, we have witnessed some of the most absurd scaremongering, speculation, and distribution of false and misleading information related to this decision that I have seen in the past four years in this sport.

Most of it is quite frankly rubbish!

Much of the on-line discussion has been propelled by: Neville Scullion, Ralph van Doorn, Paul Ash, Di Smith, all of whom are currently serving lengthy suspensions from Karting Australia.

Mr Scullion is also now the Public Officer of Commission Kartsport Australia (the so called ‘alternate karting sanctioning body’ that registered itself with Fair Trading NSW on 6 July.)

It is notable that Mr Scullion does not appear to have announced to the karting world at large that he is one of the driving forces behind CKSA, seemingly preferring to remain anonymous in that role and conflicted in his interests, while trying the scare our Clubs and members about the motives of Karting Australia in making this necessary purchase.

It is undoubtedly a very large (but fully funded) purchase of some of the best karting timing hardware and software that is available in the world at the moment. We don’t spend this sort of money on some whim as some of these people would try to make you believe.

Here are the facts in very plain language:

1. Our current Decoders (TranX) are now approaching 10 years old.
2. The TranX Decoders are:
• No longer sold by MYLAPS;
• Will shortly be no longer supported by MYLAPS (they do not receive maintenance updates and the decoder will be ‘End of Support’ as of December 31;
3. CMS as a timing system relies upon the TranX Decoder.
4. CMS as a timing system is not simple to use and has become less reliable and will continue to be less reliable for race timing.
• We spend a lot of time (and money) supporting the timing element of the CMS.
• CMS would require significant modification and testing if to work efficiently with the new MYLAPS X2 Decoder and provide the same level of output as the new Orbits 5 Software.
5. It makes no sense for us to try to further develop our own system when we can simply buy the MYLAPS X2 system that is supported 24/7 by MYLAPS.
6. In 2018, timing of all KA events will be done using Orbits 5 software and the MYLAPS X2 Decoder. We will stop support of CMS timing on 31 December.
7. The new system uses Orbits 5 software.
• Orbits 5 is a complete and user-friendly software package, exclusively for the new X2 System.


There appears a lot that has been left out of that.  Firstly how the hell did anyone come to a conclusion that those 4 people including myself, 'propelled' any discussion about MyLaps.    Which by the way is only a timing system, and does not have function for the member base.  A number of problems have been identified by various 'volunteers' about the system and working in sync, to which a lot of questions remain unanswered.

What sort of money was spent?  312K?  No cost to the clubs, but where did that money come from?

Mr Scullion is also now the Public Officer of Commission Kartsport Australia (the so called ‘alternate karting sanctioning body’ that registered itself with Fair Trading NSW on 6 July.).

It is notable that Mr Scullion does not appear to have announced to the karting world at large that he is one of the driving forces behind CKSA, seemingly preferring to remain anonymous in that role and conflicted in his interests, while trying the scare our Clubs and members about the motives of Karting Australia in making this necessary purchase.

This above comment is a cracker and laughable.  Trying to malign me as the Public Officer of another karting organization that Mr O'Reilly knows nothing about and then accuses me of having being conflicted in my interests???????  Getting a bit worried that another group might take control from KA?  I suggest that a full understanding of what the public officer is would be prudent be casting further aspersions.


john learmonth said:

I suspect there are people taking notice of what is being said on public forums, and then placing names on a list...

Regards,

John.

Tyson Arden said:

Great comments im sure lots agree with all of the above and take notice of whats being said

I've read those KA authored characterisations of persons making IMO largely not unreasonable critique of KA policy and actions. All I can say is that in my experience "trolls" and 'keyboard cowards" never put their real name to what they say...

So the description is absurd...

I do think that critics of KA ought to be careful to not potentially undermine their positions by resorting to accusations / inferences targeted at individuals on the board (unless absolutely unavoidable in their own defense), and stick to commenting on the policies and actions alone.

Regards,

John.

Neville Scullion said:

They have been referred to as 'trolls' and 'keyboard cowards'.

You are right Ian by saying you cant force people to race club days but you can put a system in place a system that supports grass roots clubs. Karters are also responsible in supporting clubs and karters at both levels have decided not to support club days.

Serious racers only want competition and if there is none then they wont race and why should they.

Club or budget karters wont race because it has got to expensive to be competitive or to race for that matter. Relative to people think expensive is. You can easily enter the club day scene for under 5k which is expensive or cheap depending on which way you look at it.

I address this with the karters supporting clubs using the points system.

Now to address the desire for serious racers to mix it with budget racers and support clubs with the series option

Step 1. Do away with Club days

Step 2. Combine 3 clubs 

Step 3. Create a series that will run in place of the club days open to members of those clubs only (just like club days)

Each club gets a race or 2 or 3 depending on whether there are 1 series or 2 series per year. Karters will receive KA Points if the race is at their primary registered membership club. 

Clubs will get better attendances, races will be full, canteens will reap and money will come in to fund clubs future exisitance.

There are solutions and we need to address the issue of what karters want. 

1. Races will better fields than 4 karters

2. Affordable karting

Affordable karting is available if only club days is what you want. Allow $200 per meet and you are racing. Thats $50 per week. Some people play golf, some go to footy, some go to the pub so we all have a budget on something we want to spend our money on. If you really want to kart then you will find a way.

Getting the serious karter to race at clubs is possible as there will be better competition we just need to change we do things. 

Consolidation of club meets and a willingness to work together will bring people back. 

We need to change the way we think!

Remember the old saying "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade"

Good thoughts Joe, but we did start with oranges, that are now lemons.

Joe Torcasio said:

You are right Ian by saying you cant force people to race club days but you can put a system in place a system that supports grass roots clubs. Karters are also responsible in supporting clubs and karters at both levels have decided not to support club days.

Serious racers only want competition and if there is none then they wont race and why should they.

Club or budget karters wont race because it has got to expensive to be competitive or to race for that matter. Relative to people think expensive is. You can easily enter the club day scene for under 5k which is expensive or cheap depending on which way you look at it.

I address this with the karters supporting clubs using the points system.

Now to address the desire for serious racers to mix it with budget racers and support clubs with the series option

Step 1. Do away with Club days

Step 2. Combine 3 clubs 

Step 3. Create a series that will run in place of the club days open to members of those clubs only (just like club days)

Each club gets a race or 2 or 3 depending on whether there are 1 series or 2 series per year. Karters will receive KA Points if the race is at their primary registered membership club. 

Clubs will get better attendances, races will be full, canteens will reap and money will come in to fund clubs future exisitance.

There are solutions and we need to address the issue of what karters want. 

1. Races will better fields than 4 karters

2. Affordable karting

Affordable karting is available if only club days is what you want. Allow $200 per meet and you are racing. Thats $50 per week. Some people play golf, some go to footy, some go to the pub so we all have a budget on something we want to spend our money on. If you really want to kart then you will find a way.

Getting the serious karter to race at clubs is possible as there will be better competition we just need to change we do things. 

Consolidation of club meets and a willingness to work together will bring people back. 

We need to change the way we think!

Remember the old saying "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade"

$200 for a club day??? Tell him he’s dreaming. $120 entry, $275 tyres $50 fuel/oil, say $50 worth of hours put on your motor...and that’s without any prep costs like chains, sprockets, bearings ect club days cost $600 ish at a guess.

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