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Massive Investment in New Timekeeping Technology for Karting Australia Clubs.

Todays announcement

Massive Investment in New Timekeeping Technology for Karting Australia Clubs.

Just want to ask 4 questions

1. How much is it costing the karters to upgrade

2. What is the advantage?

3. How is it going to bring new karters into the sport?

4. How will it redress the loss of karters?

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Hi Warren

"Stand alone and independent from the race entry system."

How will FirstName LastName KartNumber Class and TransponderNumber get into the proposed timing system ?

Manually entered ? When and who by ? By KA on race morning ?

Was Warren asked ? He is an expert in the field of kart race management and timing AND entering a kart race meeting!

Much harder and more time pressure to sort the entries (including on the day) at a kart club meeting than in Formula 1 !!!

In F1 the biggest race entry issue lately is will it be Massa or SuperSub in one car - Not as complicated as Club Karting !!! 

Was Jon Galos Asked ? He is an expert in the field  ! Had a computerised race management and integrated timing system operating more than 17 years ago at the Gold Coast Kart Club - Was it $1 or $2 we paid Earle to get a printout of your practice or lap times which was available as soon as you came off the track OR you could watch all the times coming up on the monitor - 1999 and before and after !!!

Proposed system might be suitable for major meetings where entries close a long time before but for Club Karting I have doubts ???

Will the training of Officials be similar to the not available Electronic Officials Accreditation Course that has been in KA Rules for some years or the standard of the reference script for Steward Hearings ?

Bye for now ... I'm one of that rare (and getting older and fewer) group helping run a race meeting in under 12 hours !!!


Warren Southwell said:

Stand alone and independent from the race entry system. This puts my club back 17 years to the situation that prompted me to write my first race management program with   integration to the timing software. In its 3rd incarnation it became the entry and  race management module of CM:S. Clubs will struggle to find volunteers to operate such a backward system.

As noted on the previous page......the clubs own the decoders they have now.......they do NOT have to hand over club property  to anyone.

The decoders that clubs were given were as a consequence of being required to make use of CM:S - they were provided with no agreement to return ..this was confirmed during my term as a National Karting Council delegate and by the National President, when AKA was asked" who would be responsible for the repair in the event of failure" ..the answer was simple - " you are the owner"   we were also advised that when the guarantee is over your club pays for the repairs, not AKA, that confirmed that AKA no longer owned them...No agreement was signed  - they were purchased by funds collected from karters  and their clubs ....Don't think for one moment that KA has any legal right to demand you to return your own equipment ...they don't have any right at all !

Where are the State managements information advice on the legality of stitching a club to a 10 year contract with KA...???  with KA demanding all sorts of rights over your own business where are these state managements..????? ...why are they hiding in the coward cupboards and not chasing legal advice for their members ...??

No club needs to sign these agreements - your current decoder will operate with any number of race management programs and there is nothing in the current CM:S race management program that cannot be fixed if there is a perceived problem  !!! ..its still working every weekend right now.  ..

Our club currently uses Orbits 4 and that provides all the necessary information and data to operate transponders..when the power fails and the computers don't work or freeze the old paper and pencil still produces the end result..!!!

Any club that signs this nonsense without legal advice is just being intimidated.....if they do, and you haven't been consulted, then make sure that those who signed it remain personally responsible for the 10 years that they agreed to.. ...

Well I've been nominated for a position on the KNSW Board, and I've accepted. Maybe I can do some good from there. Who will support me, which clubs will vote for me?


Warren Southwell said:
Hoodwinked for sure Nev. The decoders clubs now have are owned by the clubs not KA. Same with the tracks and facilities. Makes you wonder how you could get a position on the board.
What's the cost of a decoder, Perhaps all a club needs to do is go out and buy one and not bother with the KA deal ?

The following is the "retail" pricing ie no discounts i received this week that i advised i was going to share..


15R091 X2 Server & Decoder with cabling (1st timeline) 4,048.38
15R093 X2 Server with cabling 4,048.38
15R092 X2 Decoder with cabling 2,998.80
Set Loops
30R001 Detection loop 10m/33ft (20m/65ft coax) 224.04
30R002 Detection loop 10m/33ft (50m/165ft coax) 318.21
30R003 Detection loop 10m/33ft (100m/330ft coax) 472.97
30R004 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (20m/65ft coax) 239.64
30R005 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (50m/165ft coax) 332.38
30R006 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (100m/330ft coax) 487.56
Software
25R035 Orbits 5 'Standard' 3,605.70
25R036 Orbits 5 'Advanced' 10,817.10

Also note iIf you want multiple loops on the track you also need a decoder per loop.

Brett was it mentioned that these decoders need to be connected to the internet 24/7 otherwise data will be lost and then at cost to the club to have it retrieved?

Also is there any proviso that it incurs a fee every time it is used?

Brett Seeber said:

The following is the "retail" pricing ie no discounts i received this week that i advised i was going to share..


15R091 X2 Server & Decoder with cabling (1st timeline) 4,048.38
15R093 X2 Server with cabling 4,048.38
15R092 X2 Decoder with cabling 2,998.80
Set Loops
30R001 Detection loop 10m/33ft (20m/65ft coax) 224.04
30R002 Detection loop 10m/33ft (50m/165ft coax) 318.21
30R003 Detection loop 10m/33ft (100m/330ft coax) 472.97
30R004 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (20m/65ft coax) 239.64
30R005 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (50m/165ft coax) 332.38
30R006 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (100m/330ft coax) 487.56
Software
25R035 Orbits 5 'Standard' 3,605.70
25R036 Orbits 5 'Advanced' 10,817.10

Also note iIf you want multiple loops on the track you also need a decoder per loop.

I think their website had their terms of use which at minimum required it to be connected once a month but prefered 24/7.  Not sure of the consequences of not doing this but you need to put it online at some stage if competitors want to see their results.

Not sure on ongoing use charges for use but we in the subscription era so that may be a possibility.

Also if any of the extra features are wanted to be used like telemetry the club would be required to purchase a base link and then each competitor a link with unknown costs whether outright or ongoing.

Basicaly when clubs leave KA they just need to buy the orbits software and use the decoder they currently own, simple.

It just gets worse and worse with these turkeys running the show

Double data entry on race morning is a major concern for our future.
No, I was not asked, my expertise apparently wasn't required, but judging by the document it would have helped. However if I get elected to the board of karting NSW next weekend I will do what I can to get a better outcome.


Greg N Smith said:

Hi Warren

"Stand alone and independent from the race entry system."

How will FirstName LastName KartNumber Class and TransponderNumber get into the proposed timing system ?

Manually entered ? When and who by ? By KA on race morning ?

Was Warren asked ? He is an expert in the field of kart race management and timing AND entering a kart race meeting!

Much harder and more time pressure to sort the entries (including on the day) at a kart club meeting than in Formula 1 !!!

In F1 the biggest race entry issue lately is will it be Massa or SuperSub in one car - Not as complicated as Club Karting !!! 

Was Jon Galos Asked ? He is an expert in the field  ! Had a computerised race management and integrated timing system operating more than 17 years ago at the Gold Coast Kart Club - Was it $1 or $2 we paid Earle to get a printout of your practice or lap times which was available as soon as you came off the track OR you could watch all the times coming up on the monitor - 1999 and before and after !!!

Proposed system might be suitable for major meetings where entries close a long time before but for Club Karting I have doubts ???

Will the training of Officials be similar to the not available Electronic Officials Accreditation Course that has been in KA Rules for some years or the standard of the reference script for Steward Hearings ?

Bye for now ... I'm one of that rare (and getting older and fewer) group helping run a race meeting in under 12 hours !!!


Warren Southwell said:

Stand alone and independent from the race entry system. This puts my club back 17 years to the situation that prompted me to write my first race management program with   integration to the timing software. In its 3rd incarnation it became the entry and  race management module of CM:S. Clubs will struggle to find volunteers to operate such a backward system.

This demonstrates the flawed nature of the contract we are expected to sign, it does not specify which version of the decoder/server they are contracted to supply, nor does it specify which version of the software they are contracted to supply. There are in fact 3 versions of Orbits 5. This is not a contract that should be signed under any circumstances.


Neville Scullion said:

Brett was it mentioned that these decoders need to be connected to the internet 24/7 otherwise data will be lost and then at cost to the club to have it retrieved?

Also is there any proviso that it incurs a fee every time it is used?

Brett Seeber said:

The following is the "retail" pricing ie no discounts i received this week that i advised i was going to share..


15R091 X2 Server & Decoder with cabling (1st timeline) 4,048.38
15R093 X2 Server with cabling 4,048.38
15R092 X2 Decoder with cabling 2,998.80
Set Loops
30R001 Detection loop 10m/33ft (20m/65ft coax) 224.04
30R002 Detection loop 10m/33ft (50m/165ft coax) 318.21
30R003 Detection loop 10m/33ft (100m/330ft coax) 472.97
30R004 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (20m/65ft coax) 239.64
30R005 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (50m/165ft coax) 332.38
30R006 Detection loop 20m/65 ft (100m/330ft coax) 487.56
Software
25R035 Orbits 5 'Standard' 3,605.70
25R036 Orbits 5 'Advanced' 10,817.10

Also note iIf you want multiple loops on the track you also need a decoder per loop.

Latest is that KA will extend the return by date ...and will contact each individual club ...here comes the backdoor stand over threats........

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