Australian Karting Forum

Starter Motor problem?

Hi Everyone,

Last week at newcastle, i tried to start on the grid but the starter motor didn't even kick over. A guy at the track hit it with a spanner a few times, and then it finally decided to turn over.

Just wondering what this means....even today when I was running it, it would sometimes start turning or not turn at all (as though there was 0 power going to it). Is there something in my starter motor that has become dislodged?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Phil Warder on February 5, 2012 at 20:04

Hi Rishi

sound like the start brushes or loose or stuffed. how old is it?

Permalink Reply by Benjamin Hellyer on February 5, 2012 at 20:15

i would replace the starter motor sounds like its on its way out

Permalink Reply by Rishi Sabesan on February 5, 2012 at 20:19

its about 1 yr old...you think the brushes are loose?

Permalink Reply by Phil Warder on February 5, 2012 at 20:24

Replace with new one or get it reconditioned

Permalink Reply by wayne bower on February 15, 2012 at 20:13

i intend to race my fireball at the newcastle meeting next sunday (19.02.2012). i gave it a start earlier this week & it was kicking over after a lengthy wind up. i find now for some reason it will not start at all.do you think with an external starter, that it will start ok on the day? i am looking forward to running it, but expect i may have pull out a rotax mounted kart at the last minate if there is an issue.

do the new electrical system changes work?

can they be adapted to an older fireball?

is it difficult to fit them, & could itbe done at the meeting before racing starts?

my timing is set @ 1.9mm - & im using a powerfull 285cca SSB battery

Permalink Reply by Phil Warder on February 15, 2012 at 20:32

Hi Wayne Good to see your back.

The new system I find good, Fitting will need time not at a meeting.

I have no idea of timing Ken preps my motor and I just drive it.

I think it will start on external starter fine.

You coming to Manning Valley 25th Feb for the first round TAG super series ?

Phil22

Permalink Reply by wayne bower on February 15, 2012 at 21:33

not sure about manning yet. my night vision for racing isn't as good as it used to be. i have mounted the fireball on my other intrepid (this chassis is for sale) & am looking forward to running the odd meeting in it. seems you are racing well, i noticed some of your recent good finishes.i was under the impression that the leopard had a 19mm starting retainer nut, but danny tells me it is the same as the fireball- 17mm. when ever im looking for a external starter on the grid, i can never find one with a 17mm socket. if i don't run the fireball this sunday , i will run my son's crg kt11. so a change either way for me this weekend. wayne

Permalink Reply by Phil Warder on February 16, 2012 at 5:21

Hi Wayne have a good time , hope to see you soon.

Permalink Reply by Michael Hazelton on February 16, 2012 at 8:52

Hi Wayne, a couple of things...

- 17mm crank nut for all of the five TAG 125 engines (Fireball, IAME x30 and RL, Rotax and Cheetah). I see no issues with using an external starter. You can get a reduction nut for the 19mm strike starter to 17mm from StGeorge Kart Centre or other good shops.

- 1.9mm timing is quite retarded (good for TAG-R) which makes starting easier, so no problems there.

- The new "Easy Start" ignition makes absolutely ZERO difference to the cranking of the engine. It WILL fire earlier and start quicker once cranking, but that is it. The timing is also unchangable (in standard form) on the new ignition.

- Your issues sounds related to the starting circuit. The old ignition has two looms available. The first generation loom has issues with the plugs and relay. The 2nd gen loom has no relay and higher quality plugs. If you have a gen 1 loom, then check all of your plugs and test for Voltage drop through the circuit. If you have a Multimeter, measure the battery volts whilst starting and then measure the starter motor volts whilst starting. Any difference will be the voltage drop.

- The ONLY successful solution to Fireball starting issues is the 15v LiPo battery conversion. There are NO issues with damaging the engine ancilleries or starting circuit. The are NO issues with the new ignition either. Tried and tested on both with 100% success and zero failures for 6 months, and many starts across many karts.

- Finally get your butt to Manning!

Mik

Permalink Reply by Michael Hazelton on February 16, 2012 at 8:58

Loose brushes is the wrong term, but i know what Phil means. The copper lead coming off the brushes is quite fragile at the base of the brush. Cores of the lead start to separate from the carbon brush and then less current (power) can be transferred through the starter motor. Similar to a permanent flat battery.

A repair kit can be purchased from CRG or you can get the starter repaired by Ken Mitchell at CRG in Sydney. You might also benefit from a new starter motor as a spare if you are worried about it wrecking your day.

I will confess the singular biggest downfall of the Fireball is its starting design. As mentioned before the 15v LiPo battery solution is great and stating is never an issue again, but in standard form the starting is poor on a Fireball.

Rishi Sabesan said:

its about 1 yr old...you think the brushes are loose?

Permalink Reply by Chris Sunter on February 16, 2012 at 18:41

I have to keep this quick at the moment as i have to rush off.

Wayne, If you can get some brushes for the starter motor i don't mind putting them in for you. I am in Cardiff so not far from the track .

I also have a converter that i made so you can puck up anyone's starter at the track and start our karts with if you wish to borrow for the weekend.

Mick is right you will not be putting the new electrics on at the track, and quite frankly i don't believe it is that neccesary in restricted. In fact im not the biggest fan as there are more parts that can go wrong and you cant adjust the timing. I do not notice any difference at all.

I will not be out the track this weekend as we have stocktake which will take it all up, but you are welcome to call me if you have any parts or if you are really stuck you can borrow my starter.

You can call me on 0409 913 789,

same goes for Rishi or anyone else in the Newcastle area.

Good luck boys, let us know your results.

Permalink Reply by Chris Sunter on February 16, 2012 at 18:44

Even with the old system and a bit of attention to detail you can get reliability with these engines but if one of the systems starts to deviate from optimum it goes down hill quickly. I never needed an external starter after the 1st 3 months once i worked out the issues and that was 2 years ago without a problem. (touch wood)

Starter Motor problem?

Replies to This Discussion

Photos